Some serious help needed for a trip

[cpkisomb123]

Ok, I am sure you all will feel envious when you read about this trip but that is ok. I read about yours and I feel the same way! Just kidding. But here it is.<BR>
My brother/ brother in law are visiting U.S for the first time. So me and my wife have decided to take them on a trip of a lifetime, in early July. We are planning to drive from St. Louis (starting point), throught KS, through Colorado--(wait, it gets more exciting)--UTAH--GRAND CANYON- LAS VEGAS- Death Valley (this one is a plus-minus)- Highway 1 North to San Francisco--Yosemite Valley- Lake Tahoe- Through Utah back to CO-KS- St. Louis!!! The only bad part is that we have two weeks to do it all!<BR>
So my questions to all you seasoned travellers are<BR>
1- Are two weeks ( or maybe even push it to 16 days) enough for this kind of a trip?<BR>
2- Which parts of Utah should we drive through? Northern or Southern? Which one may be more beutiful to see? (National Arches Park vs Zion etc)<BR>
3- Any gear recommendations? Since we are driving, I may take more than if I were flying. So alongwith the camera (D 70) and a tripod and flash (SB-800), I am thinking of Sigma 17-35 2.8, Nikon 24-120, Nikon 70-200 VR, Sigma 170-500, and a few filters (Neutral Density and Circ Pol are musts!).<BR>
I know it is too much to ask from all of you but I am sure I will get very good advises. Waiting for it anxiously!!

[DeanAthans]

CPK123 -<BR>
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You've set an ambitious driving schedule for yourself and family!<BR>
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All the places you list are wonderful for photographers, but I'd like to respond to a few of your Nevada-California stops.<BR>
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Las Vegas - Glitzy and gaudy, and a lot of fun to visit and photograph. Depending on where you'll stay overnight, you might be able to get some shots of the strip and the hotel "themes" (e.g., the Bellagio lake with its dancing waters, the pirate boat attack at the Treasure Island, etc.) If you spend part of a day travelling to/via Hoover Dam, it's very impressive and there are many vistas that photograph beautifully.<BR>
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Hwy 1 shows off some of the incredible coastline of California, but be prepared for some "curvy" driving, depending on what part of Hwy 1 you'll be taking. A relatively easy drive on Hwy 1 is between Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and there are quite a few spots along that 2-hour drive that afford views of the cliffs and ocean below.<BR>
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As for San Francisco, be prepared for a downtown punctuated by serious hill driving, beautiful bridges, and a bustling metropolis. Even the Fisherman's Wharf tourist spot area is worth visiting for its views of the bay and the Golden Gate bridge. The newly renovated Ferry Buidling along the Embarcadero also presents an opportunity for some great locale photography.<BR>
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Lake Tahoe's mountain setting and size make it one of the most beautiful spots you'll visit during your trip. If you approach the lake from the north (I80), pull off and visit the Donner Party memorial (the height of the pedestal indicates the depth of the snow that winter)--awesome! Also, the drive from the north shore to the south shore along the west side of the lake will take you via Meek's Bay and other forest-lake sights that are well worth the film/memory for "several rolls" of shots!<BR>
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Best of luck on your drive and I know you'll enjoy your itinerary!<BR>

[Landscaper, too]

Having been to all those places, let me say your trip sounds like great fun ... if you enjoy spending far more time on the road than stopping to enjoy the scenery. It also means taking your pictures whenever you get to each of those places regardless of whether the light "works" when you're there.<BR>
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Some places, like Grand Canyon, deserve an entire day in themselves because the changing light creates a visual treat that just a couple of hours cannot possibly equal.<BR>
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I would suggest you give some thought to a more leisurely journey, leaving out everything West of Las Vegas. There's lots to see in Colorado, Utah, Southern Nevada and Northern Arizona. If you give it short shrift by trying to squeeze in the California coast, I promise you that you'll wish over and over again that you had a lot more time.<BR>
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By the way, a more leisurely trip will also be a lot less exhausting on everyone.<BR>
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Whatever you do, be safe and enjoy!

[DrJalapeno]

"I would suggest you give some thought to a more leisurely journey, leaving out everything West of Las Vegas."<BR>
"By the way, a more leisurely trip will also be a lot less exhausting on everyone."<BR>
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I couldn't agree more!! Way too much driving and not enough enjoying.<BR>
Save California & Nevada for another time.<BR>
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I live out here in the Four Corners area and if you decide to re-tool your journey to just visit this area (the 'Golden Circle'), I can help give you more than enough ideas to fill two weeks! I might even accompany you a little...<BR>
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There's no sense in comparing Zion vs. Arches when you can see them both! While you're in the neighborhood, check out Bryce Canyon Nat'l. Park, Capitol Reef Nat'l. Park, Monument Valley and Mesa Verde Nat'l. Park. Spend a day or two at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, then drive around and visit the North Rim.<BR>
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...and there's <i>lots</i> more to experience out here than what's contained in the national parks. Check out my replies to Bobfireman in this <A HREF=http://www.popphoto.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=20053&forumID=13&catID=&search=1&searchstring= TARGET='_blank'>thread</A> and my reply to N90s in this <A HREF=http://www.popphoto.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=30823&forumID=13&catID=&search=1&searchstring= TARGET='_blank'>thread</A> for just a sample of what's here to visit.<BR>
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Again, I strongly urge you to rethink how you spend those two weeks.<BR>
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Check out some of the

[NJMurphy]

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<b>Date:</b>5/5/2005 7:53:16 PM<BR>
<b>Author:</b>Mr. Jalapeño<BR>
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Check out some of the <BR>
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Why do I envision M. J. slumped over his keyboard right now?

[DrJalapeno]

LMAO!!! Good catch, H2oMan!<BR>
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I think I'll just leave it...

[AndyK]

This reminds me of a friend who married a German lady. One of his in-laws was coming to spend a week with them in Georgia. The relative had never visited America before and was anxious to see all he could before flying back home. One morning they were discussing the plans for the day when the relative asked, "Why can't we drive out to Nebraska today and see something there?"<BR>
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They spent some time with a map showing him the distances involved because he'd never realized how big our country was. Us folks toward the right coast sometimes forget that, too.<BR>
Best,<BR>
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Andy<BR>

[NJMurphy]

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"When my grandparents arrived in this country from Germany, they were dirty, frightened and penniless. I swear, that's the last time we let them vacation by themselves."<BR>
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(Dave George)<BR>
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From a very funny site: <A HREF=http://www.ruminate.com/ TARGET='_blank'><b>http://www.ruminate.com/</b></A>

[cpkisomb123]

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Thanks all for suggestions. Very good recommendations about cutting our trip short.<BR>
I have latest version of a software called Streets and Tips. We calculated out driving distance for the trip that I mentioned, and it comes out to be 5200 miles round trip ( I think I am under or over-estimating a little bit because we certainly may be swayed by the beutiful landscapes etc and may drive here and there). We have also put in all the stops/ the durations of the stops and estimated times of arrivals or departures at certain places. From that perspective, it looks quite do-able. I also think that the fatigue factor may be there as well for the visitors but I am not too sure about that.<BR>
As much as I would love to make it a TRIP FROM A PHOTOGRAPHER'S PERSPECTIVE (Which would be me!), I dont think that will be possible because of the time factor. If I were to take this trip for photographing, then this certainly is not practical. So mostly we will be driving through and stopping short stops every now and then.<BR>
Now, knowing what I have written above, do you guys think I still should cut the trip short? I just want to be able to show the visitors this beutiful country. Also for extremely SELFISH reasons, I do want to be able to drive through Yosemite!!! I cant bear the thought that I would be SO CLOSE (Relatively speaking) and not go through it!<BR>
Mr. J, thanks for the recommendations. They look great and having you around will be like being on a photography learning trip! But I still have not arrived at the decision of cutting the trip short or not. Let me think and then Iwill ask your advise on the GOLDEN CIRCLE trip.

[Landscaper, too]

Nadeem you can include Yosemite (if the crowds there will let you in) by skipping the California coast and Death Valley. As for whether your iternerary is "do-able," I would hasten to point out most people don't do well with long stretches riding as a passenger in car. The driver has something to keep him engaged; the passengers don't. Most people also don't do well with too many consecutive days of more than 8 hours of riding in a car.<BR>
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They're your guests, but somehow I can't imagine them being less than thrilled with a visually exciting trip that still leaves plenty of time each day to walk around, catch their breath, and spend a little time communing with Nature without being surrounded by automotive steel.<BR>
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BTW, I never seen a trip yet where the daily business of finding places to eat and sleep didn't take more time than anyone expected. Unless you're planning to rent a travel trailer or RV.

[Jim Strutz]

I did something like this a few years ago, but it was a little over 10,000 miles. Mostly because the trip started & ended in Anchorage. <BR>
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After zipping 2700 miles down to Portland area (did that in 48.5 hours once) to visit friends, we headed for the coast for a few days due to the heat (100+), then drove inland to Crater Lake, and back to the coast due to the heat (104+). Then down through Redwoods, and on to Hwy 1 all the way to San Francisco. Drove up and down all those steep hills and got completely lost in China Town. Headed out to Yosemite for the afternoon, then over the top to Mono Lake, down through Death Valey and on to Las Vegas. The rooms & food are cheap there, but we had a long way to go so over the dam we went and on to Phoenix to spend a few days with family and see southern AZ. When the family had enough of us, we headed north mostly on back roads to Sedona, Grand Canyon and Zion. Then it was time for more family in both Salt Lake and Sun Valley. From there we stayed on back roads up through Glacier, Banff & Jasper before going through Whitehorse & Dawson before heading home.<BR>
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We camped or mooched off friends and family for most of the 30 day trip, and were on freeways for less than 1000 miles. It was a great trip. Hope to do it again -- but I would not want to be in the back seat for any of it.<BR>
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For the sake of your friends, shorten the distance. Southern Utah area is very interesting, but hot in July.<BR>

[Bariona]

yes, it is do-able and will be pleasant. But take a conversion van.

[cpkisomb123]

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Thanks all for your help. You know, it seems to be fairly practical to cut the trip short and enjoy more at some places than just to drive through those places. Maybe we will end up doing that. But I still am caught by the thought of showing them how scenic California is! Visitors dont come to U.S.A every year or sometimes it turns out to be a ONCE IN A LIFETIME kind of a trip. That is what I want it to be for them.

[Redeye_Mt]

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Well I will chime in here, and give you a former OTR Truckdrivers thought on this. Whenever I was driving I would use a 60 mph average for my timeline. So I would usually figure every 1200 miles would theoretically (sp) take me 24 hours to drive it. Thats figuring in breaks for fuel and food. Now being in a car or van, you will be able to travel faster then that, but it doesnt take very many stops or time out of the vehicle to lower your average. Being in a vehicle for long times gets old fast. After awhile, you just dont want to get back into it. No matter how nice of scenery you a viewing. So my suggestion to you is to shorten your trip, and take the time to enjoy the company of your guests.<BR>
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Harold

[sergiodlg]

Another option, a bit more expensive, but will give you a bit more time at your photo destinations would be to Fly to San Francisco, rent a car with unlimited mileage, and then drive back to St. Louis and turn the car in there. This has halved your travel mileage and more importantly, halved the amount of time you will be driving.<BR>
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Just a thought.<BR>
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Best Regards<BR>
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Sergio

[Bobfireman]

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I've spent a week each in San Francisco, Moab and Monument Valley, and in no way did I see everything there is to see. I just got back from 4 days in Moab at Arches NP, and there is <i>still</i> stuff there I haven't seen. I think you're squeezing in WAY too much in WAY too little time...<BR>
But, <BR>
Arches NP and Monument Valley are particularly well suited for a auto tour. I'm not so sure about Capitol Reef or Zion...<BR>
I agree with the others and leave out everything west of Las Vegas for another time. But thats just me...

[cpkisomb123]

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Thanks all of you for your valuable opinion. Now I can sit back and give cutting the trip short a serious thought!

[Narsuitus]

Since you also asked for gear recommendations, in addition to the equipment you listed, I suggest adding batteries, memory, photo cleaning supplies, and emergency equipment repair tools.

[pnh173]

About 18 months after my wife and I got married, we took a trip from Kentucky to Missouri, stayed a couple of days, then to South Dakota and the Mount Rushmore area, another 3 days. Across Wyoming, through Bear Tooth pass, down into Yellowstone for another two or three days. South to Salt Lake City, stopped at Bryce, and on to the Northern rim of the Grand Canyon. Across Arizona into the Four Corners Area. Visited Mesa Verde (cliff dwellings), through Wolf Creek Pass into Colorado Springs and Pike's Peak. The across Kansas and Missouri and back to Kentucky. Seems like I recall that was about two and one half to three weeks. We drove a VW camper and stopped at a motel or camp ground every two to four days, the rest of the time just pulling over wherever we were and sleeping or eating.<BR>
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It was a trip with wonderful memories, but still quite fast paced. I know what you mean by wanting to show them as much as possible. But, that is a lot of ground to cover in two weeks, and really see anything. And if it is in a car rather than a camper, whew. I wish you good luck if you do it.<BR>
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Our recollection of the trip is that it was fun, and we would like to see some of those places again, but not that fast, and maybe not all at once. I guess it really was a trip of a life time.